![[Submarine Mining/Royal Engineers, 1915]](../images/g/gb~sm.gif)
by Martin Grieve
Last modified: 2011-12-24 by rob raeside
Keywords: board of ordnance | royal engineers transportation service | thunderbolt | arm | wings |
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by Martin Grieve
The Royal Engineers, Ports Section, operated harbours and ports for the army
and used mainly specialised vessels such as tugs and dredgers. Although the
former Submarine Mining Service badge had been designated 'Royal Engineers'
after Submarine Mining was transferred to the Admiralty in 1904, the badge was
made obsolete in 1909. However at the beginning of the 1914-1918 War, Inland
Water Transport (IWT), previously part of the War Department Fleet, was
transferred to the Royal Engineers and in 1915 the old Submarine Mining/Royal
Engineers badge was reintroduced with pattern again sealed (L of C 17226).
IWT ran barges on rivers and canals up to the front line in France. Later their
responsibilities were extended, and by 1916 they were also operating ships and
train
ferries across the Channel. IWT vessels were also in East Africa, and
Mesopotamia (Iraq)
where they moved supplies on the Tigris and Euphrates from Basra to Baghdad; by
1918
over 1600 vessels were there, mainly chartered or requisitioned. IWT was
disbanded in
1924, but revived in 1939. During the 1939-1945 War IWT was active in North
Africa,
India, Malaya, Burma, Iraq, Normandy, Belgium, and the Netherlands.
In November 1942 the Director of Transportation asked whether the flag issued to
Royal Engineers small craft was correct. He seems to have been concerned with
the
form of the thunder-bolt.
The original 1806 crest from which the badge was derived;
"Out of a mural crown a dexter hand holding a thunderbolt all proper",
had been changed in 1823 to
"Out of a mural crown, argent, a dexter cubit arm the hand grasping a
thunderbolt,
winged and in flames, proper".
Sir Gerald W. Wollaston, Inspector of Regimental Colours, wrote "thunderbolts are
always
subject to treatment", and in a later letter, "Wings and lightning should
emanate from the
body of the thunder-bolt of which they are a constituent part. In the badge the
wings
seem to float behind the hand. A thunder-bolt is a winged body (of no very
definite
formation perhaps) from which emanate flashes of lightning."
David Prothero, 26 September 2004
I would add that as late as 1976 it was worn in Berlin on the three boats
used by 38 (Berlin) Squadron on the rivers and lakes of the city. I was the
troop commander in the squadron at the time.
Tom Dobinson, 25 April
2008
![[Royal Engineers blue ensign]](../images/g/gb~re.gif)
image
by Martin Grieve
image based on
photograph of flag
![[1823 crest of the Ordnance Board arms
]](../images/g/gb)re.gif)
image by Martin Grieve
Images are based on a
photograph of an ensign.
David Prothero, 26 September 2004
![[1823 crest of the Ordnance Board arms
]](../images/g/gb)obc.jpg)
image
by David Prothero, 26 September 2004
This is the 1823 crest of the Ordnance Board arms.
David Prothero, 26 September 2004
Ensigns with the revised badge were made in two sizes, 6' x 3' and 3' x 1.5',
(183/ 91/ 46 cm). Small numbers were ordered in 1943 and early 1944, probably for
training units, but in June orders were placed for 2,514 six feet ensigns and
1,982 three
feet ensigns, for operational service.
After the war the army continued to have two separate water-borne transport
organisations,
Royal Engineers (Transport Services) operating ports and bulk movement in bases
and on
lines of communication, and Royal Army Service Corps responsible for
intercommunication
and distribution movements. In July 1965 the Royal Army Service Corps Fleet
(civilian and military) and the Royal Engineers Fleet (Port Squadrons & Inland
Water
Transport) merged to form the Royal Corps of Transport Fleet.
The Royal Engineers ensign was later flown at the Royal Engineers Diving
Training Wing at
Gunwharf, Portsmouth. It presumably disappeared in 1996, when all Service diving
moved to
the Joint Service Defence Diving School on Hornsea Island, Portsmouth, though I
think it
made a brief reappearance on one of the landing- craft beached at Arromanches
during the
60th anniversary of D-Day celebrations.
David Prothero, 26 September 2004
The post of Master General of Ordnance was abolished in 1855, but it was
revived again in 1904, as a position on the Army Council, its holder responsible
for the Directorates of Artillery, Fortifications and Works and the Royal
Ordnance Factories, amongst other things. In 1927, the post also became
responsible for the Directorate of Mechanization. The MGO was abolished in 1938,
to be replaced by the Director General of Munitions Production. It was revived
again in 1959 with responsibility for the artillery and ordnance services, to be
abolished again in 1963.
Ian Sumner, 23 November 2005
I am a serving Royal Engineer and the Boats Officer at 62 Cyprus Support
Squadron RE and have never before seen such an ensign. You mention that it was
flown at the diving school and since that has become tri-service it is no longer
flown. Does that mean it cannot be flown? The Royal Engineers still operate
boats for training and operations but do not normal fly ensigns from them as
they are deemed as to small. The Corps has boat sections in many units including
59 Independent Commando Squadron RE, 62 Cyprus Support Squadron RE, 25 Engineer
Regiment (Northern Ireland), 28 Engineer Regiment (Hameln) and the Boat Ops
Section of the Royal School of Military Engineering at Upnor Hard as well as on
operations in Iraq. Could or should we be flying RE Ensigns from our larger
craft (M3 Rigs, Combat Support Boat etc) and shore establishments?
Capt. Rob Ridley, 17 February 2006
The Blue Ensign of the Royal Engineers ceased to exist as a maritime ensign
(I do not know if it was formally cancelled) in 1965 when the fleets of the
Royal Army Service Corps and the Royal Engineers were merged to become the fleet
of the Royal Corps of Transport. In general, maritime flags are heavily
regulated, while land flags are almost totally unregulated, though no doubt
there are restrictions on the flags that can be flown by Army units, and on MoD
property. The flag at the diving school was probably flown as an historic flag.
After the school became tri-service it would not have been considered proper to
fly a specific Army flag unless there were equivalent Navy and Air Force flags.
Photograph of the flag that was flown at Gunwarf attached.
Do the larger craft fly any flag at present ? I am not sure if it
is still the case, but the rule in the Navy was that the White Ensign was flown
ashore only on those buildings that were considered to be extensions of
H.M. Ships of War such as Naval Barracks, but not on other Naval Establishments
such as dockyards or hospitals.
I imagine that any rules for Army ensigns are in Army Regulations,
or if not, in a Royal Logistic Corps Order.
David Prothero, 18 February 2006
I beg to differ with your statement that the RE Blue Ensign ceased to exist
as a maritime ensign in 1965. Unless the organization that was granted the
ensign (in this case the Royal Engineers) disappears there is no way that the
ensign would officially disappear. Even when the organization does disappear (e.g.,
Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food) its successor usually gets its
ensigns without further paperwork (so the MAFF ensign is now used by Department
for Food and Rural Affairs). We are very good at finding new homes for "defunct"
ensigns, although it sometimes takes a few years :-)
It appears that although the majority of the RE fleet was combined with the RCT
fleet, some small boats were retained for other operational reasons, and further
vessels may have been added later, again to meet new operational requirements
(it's a bit difficult to fix a bridge if you have no boats!) All these vessels
were entitled to fly the RE ensign. Just because we were unaware that the RE
still had vessels doesn't mean that they weren't entitled to their ensign. In
fact the RE ensign was never deleted. It is still in the Army stock system and
will be in BR20 2006 (even before I heard from Captain Ridley). The stocked flag
is small (45cm at the hoist) so is probably for use on small boats. So it is
perfectly possible that some RE units have been using it all this time.
So it is my opinion that Captain Ridley's unit, and indeed any other RE Boat
Squadron, can fly the RE Blue Ensign from their boats, paint it on the sides if
desired, fly it at their shore establishment and wear it as a shoulder flash
(like the Royal Logistics Corp do with theirs).
Graham Bartram, 19 February 2006
An example of the RE flag that was worn on a landing craft at D-day and
another used by my late father, Col GL Collard OBE, ERD, on his patrol vessel
based at Duisburg on the Rhine in 1945 / 46 and made in Germany can be seen in
this photograph.
William Collard,
10 October 2011
This flag has the fire and lightning yellow with red tips, where we have it a
single shade of gold. A variation?
Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg,
11 October 2011
The World Database (http://www.flags.net/UNKG06.htm)
image also shows the red tips.
Pete Loeser, 11 October 2011
